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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 14,703
7/26/19 2:22 P

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Just saw it's been over a year since I posted here. The book I was looking for has a different title, though I think it's the same book, possibly retitled for Americans: Say Goodbye to Overeating. I forgot that it was so ambitious! Maybe that's another reason Riley changed the title. The other title is Eating Less. Much more reasonable and likely all the majority can hope for. Can I really say goodbye forever to ever overeating? I'd say no, since these days it takes very little to feel like I've overeaten.

Six years of maintaining a 20% weightloss and counting.
*To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats.
8 years and counting! nosdiet.com/
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


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OHMEMEME's Photo OHMEMEME Posts: 969
6/19/18 3:09 P

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I agree with you OOLALA...so much of this is experimenting and gaining experience of what is useful as individuals. I, like you, set a plan in action for today and short term near future. That helps me feel in control but not locked in to something that may bring failure, my big fear I suppose. I also agree that recovery comes in a combination of trials and hindsights over time.

This reply/message is for anyone who happens on to this thread.
Just keep searching and trying. Disappointingly, there is no perfect way, no magic answer-technique-pill. But there is help, hope, and recovery that comes with diligence and dedication.

I really did enjoy reading Gillean Riley and benefitted from it.

Keep Sparking!

A decision made about how much to weigh is a decision made on how to live. (KANOE) I have decided.


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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 14,703
6/19/18 1:04 A

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I wish I could find my copy of Eating Less so that I could refresh my memory. My No S Diet is also somewhere I can't see it! I culled books and rearranged them not that long ago, so it is doubly puzzling. But I reread Riley only after No S had been pretty much in place and my weight loss stable for a few years. I reread it out of curiosity and saw how much of it applied in retrospect, not because I intended to use her plan. It was a moot point by then.

I don't remember her advocating anything like Fit For LIfe, or eating clean, but I had forgotten plenty before, so who knows? In fact, I know in a Tedtalk, she said that low carb has been more effective than other programs. On an online promo for her course, she said that if weight loss was the goal rather than just getting control over your eating (she said once somewhere that she is not one bit interested in helping people using dieting to achieve some particular physique), that she recommended a combination of low carb and fasting. Now wouldn't THAT scare the bejesus out of the BED therapy gang! But I'm sure she would not impose that on any participants. They would have to choose it freely and see how it goes. The problem I see is that too many people are dishonest with themselves about why they're doing something and how much they're willing to sacrifice for it. It's not a criticism; just an observation.

But how would a person get to the point of truly willingly choose to eat in a restrictive way? Would they immediately jump to that? No, I suspect they would have to go through the process of Times and Amounts to really put the eater in the driver's seat. It might happen quickly or slowly given the conditions of the eater. I have said over and over, if there are real health concerns, they need to become the primary concern and the BED secondary. A person would need to believe that she can adopt a healing diet even in the face of a binge pattern.

I don't believe restriction has to be a big problem. It's a problem when it's motivated by shame and self-loathing. It's then a penance and that's is just not reinforcing. When restriction is embraced because without it, you can't get something you really want, something that is life enhancing, then I believe it is a great path. But just to be thin? The odds are not with that.

I think if you feel good with your elimination eating and can see yourself continuing indefinitely, forget the fears the BED experts try to instill. You have done enough experimentation to be able to see what your options are and to choose this as the best one. I think people who are motivated by health are the right candidates for more limited eating routines but that doesn't mean they can't find some pleasure in the foods they can eat unless they are in dire straits. I am convinced compulsive overeaters can very surely adhere to a wide variety of eating patterns in content and frequency. I just think some patterns have better odds than others for those who don't have more pressing concerns. Any new pattern can take a fair amount of adjustment, but so what? It's either adjust or live in misery. The new pattern can look very much like a diet because anything that deviates from the present cultural overeating habits seems like a weight loss diet. I'm not on a diet. I have changed my diet. It's not the same thing.

White, it seems you have stumbled on something neuroscientists have known for quite awhile. Plainer foods, those that have less brain reward value, are actually more satiating. But it likely takes some effort to discover it because during a transitional period- which may be months or even year- the seductive foods are gong to seem like a better bet. It's also been seen that the plainer foods allow the body to lower its acceptable set point range. But a person has to come to it by experimentation, I believe. And she may not come to the same conclusions as others. I am just not willing to eat that plainly all the time. I make the bargain I'm willing to make today and for the near future. It may change as I age as things have over these 8.5 years.

I was familiar with Bright Line Eating long before Dr. Thompson designed her $500-!,000 online courses and now hawks other people's stuff on her email list. I guess I never had as serious a problem with food as she did. I'll continue to take my chances with not weighing and measuring everything I eat, including carrying a scale into a restaurant or adhering to a certain calorie limit or never eating sugar/flour products. (They play a very small role now. ) I still believe about 80%+ of people do not need such drastic strategies, but I'm just an amateur. But for those who do, God bless.

Edited by: OOLALA53 at: 6/20/2018 (22:12)
Six years of maintaining a 20% weightloss and counting.
*To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats.
8 years and counting! nosdiet.com/
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


3,554 Days since:  I began the NO S lifestyle
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OHMEMEME's Photo OHMEMEME Posts: 969
6/16/18 3:27 P

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Interesting post! There is just sooooo much info out there and of course, some is conflicting of others. I have finally learned that not ALL info has to used and possibly just not for me. We are each so unique and each reason for over overeating so individual. But I do find some times just one helpful hint in a whole book that just works. I also know that works for me today may not work in the future some just keep researching and keep trying. I am soooo much better and that's what counts.

I just started following a few blogs of Susan Pierce Thompson of Bright Line Eating. I got tired of her because I do not agree with total abstinence of certain foods but it works for her and many of her followers. But I do get information and motivation from her free material.

My only advice is too keep researching and trying methodologies that work for you as an individual. I have finally learned that no one method is magic...

Best wishes on your path to better health and well being.

A decision made about how much to weigh is a decision made on how to live. (KANOE) I have decided.


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WHITE-2's Photo WHITE-2 Posts: 434
6/15/18 4:19 P

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I just read Eating Less during my holiday a week ago. I found it inspiring though a bit confusing now and then, too. Because she talks about overcoming food addiction by using 'psychological' methods and arguments but she ALSO advocates a very 'clean', plant based diet (namely 'Fit for Life' which is a program I know very well and followed for 2 years, and this is a diet / program that is very strict, more or less vegan and one that some people use for the purpose of anorexia / bulimia).
My thought is that if you can eat that clean, you will not be bothered by cravings and urges to overeat and binge nearly as much. So then there is less need for the psychological strategies she mentions.
I mean if you do as she says and eat that clean, did you really overcome the (psychological) food addiction or is it just gone because you abstain from the foods you are addicted to?

That said I found a lot of her insights very interesting and I am practicing with her 'Times'.

In the meantime I have been doing over 100 days now of an elimination diet, avoiding sugar, gluten, soy, sweeteners, dairy, peanuts and yeast. So that is very much a 'diet' with a capital D but the funny thing is that I have done well with it while I thought that following such a diet would trigger the binge eating very strongly.
I have a thought that somehow, maybe, this way of eating just suits me. I am an all or nothing type person and maybe I just feel more comfortable eating 'nothing'; none of the trigger foods. This is strongly contradicted by the BED treatment that I got and that insisted we MUST include 'treats' and sweets etcetera.
However I have had to learn to not be TOO perfectionistic with how I eat. Not focus on details like I used to or I would probably have given up because I could not eat as clean as some part of me feels I 'should'.

I am doing this for my health and of course knowing that if I eat the foods that I cut out I won't get any clear results as to the question of whether avoiding food x or y will help alleviate my pain / health issues is a very good motivation. (I CAN binge though, said my dietician, if I 'must'- on things like nuts. I had two binges in 3 months but somehow it just was not all that attractive to binge on the 'allowed' foods...).

Edited by: WHITE-2 at: 6/15/2018 (16:26)
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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 14,703
2/14/18 4:10 P

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I'm glad you've found some usefulness out of her book. I got the impression that health was A major focus she felt compulsive eaters should focus on, but that may be a more recent development. I know she emphasized the improved self-esteem from not feeling like food is in control. Is that a benefit you've seen from not drinking? I know I've actually tried to divorce myself even from that, meaning that I don't want my self-esteem to rest on my target eating. But there is some sense of satisfaction when I eat according to the guidelines I've adapted over the years. But others might call that self-esteem and if it's helpful, so be it.

To be honest, I did set limits that I continue to abide by, but in looking back on it, though it was by the recommendation of a source outside myself, I think it worked because I had gotten to the pint at which I could not stand the idea that I would binge for my whole adult life. And I was certain I would not live the traditional guidelines of other weight loss "experts." Plus I was finally tired enough of the heavy feelings from overeating. So when I started my program, I felt I WAS making the best choice for me. And in a certain way, I did decide that I would face down the feelings, though I gave myself the option of diversion as well.

I, too, sometimes get triggered by reading sources on changing eating habits even after all this time. But I know I will be sorry if I succumb. I can feel that the neural network gets stronger in a zigzag fashion, often by failing and getting greater resolve because it becomes more and more obvious that my WOE is superior. I don't have to convince myself as I did so many times in the beginning; it was going on an inkling and a might fear. Now, it comes from enough experiences totally believe that you can accumulate enough, too.

Six years of maintaining a 20% weightloss and counting.
*To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats.
8 years and counting! nosdiet.com/
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


3,554 Days since:  I began the NO S lifestyle
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MEDDYPEDDY's Photo MEDDYPEDDY Posts: 8,369
2/13/18 12:43 A

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I finished reading Gillian Riley and I have gotten a lot to work with. Although I had to fight my resistance to her "lecturing" attitude (as I thought) she still made so much sense and gave som great insights of stuff that I have been noticing, så I find the book very useful.
That said, I have had to fight cravings since I started to read.... I am not sure what it is that upset me, maybe this reminder that it is my choice to eat or not at all times. I think I have lived with the idea that I have to get rid of the cravings in order to stop eating compulsvely, what I read in "Eating less" is tha I have to meet my cravings and decide not to eat on them... fair enough.

And as I went through this process with alcohol twelve years ago I remember the turmoil of feelings as I could not resist thinking about "forever"!... "do I have to do this forever?" "No way, I am going to manage to saty away from wine for the rest of my life" and silliest of all "Will I not be allowed to celebrate my daughters graduation with champagne?" I had to calm myself and say "Itīs just for today, donīt think about tomorrow, you can make a new decision then, but for today, you donīt want to drink."
That was twelve years ago, my daughterīs graduation is one year away today and I still have not decided wether Iīll have champagne that day or not...but probably not. Why should I?

I think she underestimates the losing-weight part a bit, I need to lose weight, not for appearance, but for my health and the first ten kilos I lost since christmas has made a HUGE difference to my health. So it is urgent but I agree that the main work is to change the behaviour and learn to meet those cravings witout giving in. And I really embrace the ideas about not being perfect, this black-and-white thinking I suffer from is a severe obstacle to success...


"Trust God and buy broccoli."

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SUNFLOWERLIFE's Photo SUNFLOWERLIFE Posts: 15
6/4/17 5:51 A

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thank you for that great insightful post. I will do my lists

OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 14,703
3/10/17 6:45 P

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Actually, there are pleasures with not bingeing, too. When it becomes more clear that we are actually giving up other pleasures and satisfactions that have nothing to do with weight in order to overeat, it gets a little easier to bear the pain in the moment.

The No S book, though I love it to death, isn't always the best guide in dealing with the emotional connection. Reinhard admits that he doesn't understand that much about emotional eating. I don't think he gets how much emotional overeaters judge their very worth by these behaviors. He even says not to use No S to solve those problems but he can;t stop us!

Six years of maintaining a 20% weightloss and counting.
*To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats.
8 years and counting! nosdiet.com/
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


3,554 Days since:  I began the NO S lifestyle
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OHMEMEME's Photo OHMEMEME Posts: 969
3/10/17 9:22 A

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Thanks for the insights! I will be making the 3 part advantages list as a practice review. I will also revisit the No S strategies and work on understandings the whys. As you stated, it really comes down to letting go of the "pleasures" if the reasons are important enough to me. As I already know "how to lose weight" I am trying to reset my brain to controlled eating. That's where I will find peace and balance with food which "should" be my ultimate goal. Again, I look forward to reading posts about this book...

Keep Sparking!

A decision made about how much to weigh is a decision made on how to live. (KANOE) I have decided.


 current weight: 160.3 
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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 14,703
3/9/17 2:34 A

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So you have only 3 meals, but include sweets and add more after you finish eating what's on the plate? That's still impressive.

Judith Beck recommends as a first step to write a list of benefits of making the changes to your eating that you will be making. Riley shows how important it is to have as many reasons as possible that are not related to weight loss for appearance's sake,

I say they have to be true for you. I was honest that "health" was not a major motivation for years. Otherwise, I would have been even more selective about what went on my plate much earlier.(I actually very early ate rather healthily because I included freggie st lunch and dinner, and didn;t often eat cruddy fats on N days. I was never a burger and fries-type overeater. Sweets and some some starches were my binge foods, so sweets on weekends loosened the bond.) But a sense of vitality was very attractice, and that is impossible if I am overeating often. I just didn't want to keep feeling full and cruddy so often, not to mention the sense of being pushed around by food. My little forays into learning about the brain convinced me that if I didn't do something systematic to limit my eating, even when I still felt strong urges to overeat, the overeating was going to continue and get worse and it has already gotten pretty bad. I had already been trying to control my eating and failed at it for nearly 40 years. I also couldn't accept the idea that I was going to keep doing this for another 20 years. I knew what it was like to be hungry and then enjoy my meals, and I wanted that more. I wasn't sure I would lose any weight. I just didn't want to live stuffed or even vaguely full so often. I did lose weight that first year, taking me out of the obese range but I was overweight for a couple more years, even having a relapse at one point and going back to old habits. Fear and the memory of how much better I had felt got me back on track.

The point is when your goal is not weight loss for cosmetic reasons, the fear of failing at weight loss becomes moot, and you can keep going even when you weigh the same.

The way we know if a reason is truly important is if we are willing to do difficult things and give up some pleasure to accomplish it. We kid ourselves when we say something is important and then opt for pleasure instead over and over. When we look at our eating, and can't see any pleasure we'd be willing to give up, or any pleasure we'd gain from giving up eating pleasure, we're pretty much going to have to learn to live with our habits more peaceuflly.

So, can you live with your eating habits as is peacefully? What else besides the idea that your eating keeps you weighing more than you think is attractive REALLY bothers you? Is there anything unpleasant about it physically? If you're not willing to confront the desire to eat, could you let yourself off the hook and give up on the pursuit of weight loss, deciding that it's too hard to try, and you're not getting any satisfaction from trying? Could you enjoy your lifestyle if you could accept your body? You don't HAVE to change your eating. You just have to live with the consequences if you don't. There are other ways to improve your appearance, if you actually feel pretty good physically. And other ways to get some of the happiness you think you'd get from losing weight, too. But, if you think it would continually bother you...

If I may suggest, be willing to start three lists: what you really like about overeating (be honest!), what disadvantages it has, and what benefits you think you might get from cutting down on seconds and sweets. I resisted doing this for years and it cost me. Keep reviewing them every few days and add to them as you think of new stuff. Appearance can be part of it, but it won't work on its own. When you think they're pretty complete, read them every day, and even several times a day. I read my advantages list several times a day for months. You will be doing basically what competitive athletes, musicians, etc. do rather unconsciously all the time.

It's worth it. emoticon

Edited by: OOLALA53 at: 3/9/2017 (07:57)
Six years of maintaining a 20% weightloss and counting.
*To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats.
8 years and counting! nosdiet.com/
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


3,554 Days since:  I began the NO S lifestyle
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OHMEMEME's Photo OHMEMEME Posts: 969
3/8/17 8:13 A

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No I'm not really dong No S...just mastered the 3 meals a day part.

I think my next concentration should be the "no seconds." I consider seconds giving in to the "urge or desire for more." Small step I guess but really a hurdle in my mind. I worked this area before but have had a backslide...especially when it's something "healthy/legal."

There I go again... Trying to break that cycle of thinking too. Lots of work to be done in this head. Triggers rebellion... I fight the fear of failure sometime by not even trying. Trusting the program is key I guess... Don't trust myself to follow through...

Don't mean to sound so negative hear. I have made some very big strides but still lots of work to be done. Enjoying your posts here n the message board too. Thanks

A decision made about how much to weigh is a decision made on how to live. (KANOE) I have decided.


 current weight: 160.3 
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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 14,703
3/7/17 9:46 P

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Riley is quite insistent on not wanting to avoid the impulse to eat. I've kept saying there is more power in saying NO when it's hard, and she agrees, though she says it's important not to gloss over the urge and get on to something else, though she also doesn't mean to sit with it for hours.

I know at various times I've been resentful of the urges, though I've also been okay with them at times. I'm getting from her to try to cultivate a sense of real acceptance of the urges. I wonder if I could regard them as pleasant, as regard hunger as pleasant. But hunger is delightful to satisfy, whereas urges aren't. But I could still give some attention to them and then move it.


So you ARE doing No S but bingeing some times?

Six years of maintaining a 20% weightloss and counting.
*To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats.
8 years and counting! nosdiet.com/
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


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OHMEMEME's Photo OHMEMEME Posts: 969
3/7/17 6:19 P

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Yes, Oolala. Talking about No S. I've adapted parts into my plan and have come a loooong way! i know that sometimes you have to choose "a" plan for it to really work...but, always a but for me... The biggest take away I've gotten from No S is I can survive on three meals and planning snacks and how much and budgeting in calories and and and causes anxiety. I've learned to recognize hunger vs craving vs desire to eat. I appreciate that "sweet emptiness" that comes from no snacks. I really need to do some head work on urges and not so much worry about the yoyo of pounds.

Thanks!

A decision made about how much to weigh is a decision made on how to live. (KANOE) I have decided.


 current weight: 160.3 
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177.475
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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 14,703
3/7/17 9:11 A

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Keep looking for any reasons to eat well and face down binges that have nothing to do with how you look or losing weight. Believe me, even slim women binge and they are miserable over it.

Riley spends a lot of time looking at all the reasons we overeat, as does Beck but in the end, the most important fact is that no matter what the reason, the cure is to simply not eat when it's not in our plan. Realize it's tearing you up to keep doing it. Giving up hoping for something that will take the urge away was my turnaround,

You can do it!

I use an eating program that I adopted 7 years ago and it has been a great foundation to reduce bingeing. Have we ever talked about that? What are you doing now on that front?

Edited by: OOLALA53 at: 3/9/2017 (07:59)
Six years of maintaining a 20% weightloss and counting.
*To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats.
8 years and counting! nosdiet.com/
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


3,554 Days since:  I began the NO S lifestyle
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OHMEMEME's Photo OHMEMEME Posts: 969
3/7/17 7:55 A

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Thanks for the share! I agree.
But I must truley admit/confess that looking good is my main motivator for weight loss. However, now that I have lost the initial weight, I am more willing to learn and understand the concepts presented here. It is also most necessary in maintaining my weight. I have also admitted/confessed that I have a "problem" with food - binging.
I have been reading and working on the matter for almost five years... I've had some really good lapses but still fall too regularly. Facing the monster is tough but reading things like this post gives me hope.
I will reread... May locate the book one day. I'd like to read more of your blogs about it if you put them out there. I am a Somewhat of a Judith Beck fan and believe in her CBT which sounds similar in concept in the book mentioned.
I am working on managing the binge...but my goal needs to focus on managing the urge. I do admit that this is hard but so worth it. Regain is inevitable without vigilence in taming food behaviors. That's why "diets" don't always work long term. Something has to change to drop weight but the change in mindset is the key to true success.
I hope to hear more...and hope to Spark other members.
Best wishes and keep Sparking!

A decision made about how much to weigh is a decision made on how to live. (KANOE) I have decided.


 current weight: 160.3 
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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 14,703
3/6/17 8:46 P

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I read this book years ago rather in the middle of my first successful years after my turnaround, and it didn't impress me much then but it seems really smart now! Much of what I have been doing fits her assertions about what needs to happen, but I had cobbled it together from multiple sources.

One interesting fact is that research shows that those who are motivated by weight loss because of body shame are more likely to give up on their efforts most quickly. I have long said here on LBF that the motivation to lose weight for appearance is notoriously unsuccessful just from my own observations. Now research shows the correlation.

A main claim of hers, which is rather common now but was not when she started counseling overeaters back in the '90's, is that dreading feeling the urge to binge is one of the greatest obstacles to actually being able to weaken its hold. It doesn't mean that a person purposely forces herself to push her limits, but that she get braver about being able to feel the discomfort of the urge and still decide not to eat. But she does have to decide not to eat, and she can't do it as a punishment or burden. She says no because she has understood the discomfort of holding out at that moment is actually better than the discomfort she'll feel later if she eats and that she can't have the vitality or health or other inner reward she wants if she keeps eating whenever she has the urge. Also because she recognizes that the urge does not represent any real need to eat. The fake reward the food supplies can make this very hard to see, but continued reflection can reveal the truth.

She also insists that people must see that they could actually choose any time to go ahead and eat anything they want and all that they want, but they will also be choosing the consequences that go with that action. They can also have set guidelines that limit their intake, guidelines that they choose, over and over to live with because they believe in and hopefully experience the value of of those guidelines. Saying or feeling "I CAN'T eat that," or the like actually makes it harder. It is perfectly possible to say no to a binge before or even during it, though it doesn't feel easy! She says a person needs to see that she can always make the desire go away temporarily by going ahead an eating, but she can also decide to accept the desire and not eat. She chooses not to because she really wants that later true reward even more. This process of having the desire come but not following it with food is what weakens the bond the most. Not having the urge in the first place is mostly luck; learning to accept and experience the urge is power.

She is advocating that people make health and the sense of inner peace from keeping to a reasonable plan their beacons. I called it vitality when I started because health implied to me that I could never eat anything unhealthy!

I also appreciate that she says she is not interested in helping people get to size zero, nor to eat the least amount of food possible, nor to get rid of the urges completely and forever.

I am seeing glimmers of how these ideas could help me with other behaviors I consider even more problematic, but I want to finish and go back over it for that.

Six years of maintaining a 20% weightloss and counting.
*To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats.
8 years and counting! nosdiet.com/
*Get to the next meal hungry!
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