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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 14,703
3/25/18 1:32 P

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P.S. I agree that even applying something like "fake it 'til you make it" has to take some resolve, and, dare I say it, willpower to start. It's an algorithm of a combination of the desire for a different life and the reasonableness of the changes attempted that depends the individual involved. I don't actually think it's going to be completely different for every person, but each person has to discover what it is by trial, error, and success, probably in several cycles.

Six years of maintaining a 20% weightloss and counting.
*To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats.
8 years and counting! nosdiet.com/
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 14,703
3/25/18 1:27 P

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Thank you! Honestly, I am thinking about it but don't have the organizational skills at this point to do it. I'd have to spend a fair amount of time reviewing my years of posts on Spark, since so many of my thoughts are in response to other people's questions and posts. I'm involved in getting proposals and work on a property the bank and I own, and that is so mental-energy consuming (and necessary because of long, costly neglect), that I can't see being able to make the first steps for a few months, but it is on my list. It was part of the reason I took time off from work, but that will probably be over at the end of July, so I'd better get on it!

Six years of maintaining a 20% weightloss and counting.
*To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats.
8 years and counting! nosdiet.com/
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


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WHITE-GREEN's Photo WHITE-GREEN Posts: 3,933
3/25/18 4:29 A

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Thinking about this topic I wrote a long post but I decided to post it on my blog. If you are a friend please come over and read it there....


Edited by: WHITE-GREEN at: 3/25/2018 (04:30)
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WHITE-2's Photo WHITE-2 Posts: 434
3/25/18 4:11 A

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Re: other people telling you or resolve from within: I was thinking that if one decided to 'fake it until he makes it' that choice to perform the behavior, itself, may have to come from within....


Edited by: WHITE-2 at: 3/25/2018 (04:28)
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WHITE-2's Photo WHITE-2 Posts: 434
3/25/18 4:09 A

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Oolala, I've asked you before: please write a book! At some point I might even beg you!
You say you are 'going on and on' but *I* think you word it all SO WELL and many people could benefit from your experiences!
And remember I am Dutch; I do not do flattering.



Edited by: WHITE-2 at: 3/25/2018 (04:10)
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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 14,703
3/22/18 2:17 P

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I didn't know how to phrase it. She was reporting the research. I see what you mean about the ones who succeed just by blindly following a plan. I do know for me when I felt like I was choosing my eating plan and thought of it as a fair trade for what I was giving up, it got easier.



Six years of maintaining a 20% weightloss and counting.
*To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats.
8 years and counting! nosdiet.com/
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


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MEDDYPEDDY's Photo MEDDYPEDDY Posts: 8,369
3/22/18 2:55 A

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That statment rises a lot of questions – what is "Influence from the outside" how many of my decisions are really made without a glance on what "common opinions" or trends or authorities or science (or Gillian Riley) is saying. My concious decisions are mostly based on information I have gotten from "outside" and processed to believe that it is useful.

There is also a saying in twelvestep groups "fake it til you make it" that has worked for a lot of people. Hey started to do a behaviour because others told them it had worked for them, they did not believe in it but just did it... and after a while it started to work for them and then they were believer and it changed their brains.

I do understand the idea of it, you have to make people want to change from "inside" if you want it to last but I think the statement is far too rough, itīs too much of a kliché to me...

THat makes Riley even more interesting to me – because she has made an impact, I have gotten some "aha"-moments and her book has changed my thinking in a constructive way. But she also gives me an impression of shallowness, there are lots of conclusive statements that I find too general to be of use. So interesting, if I had the money I might join the webinar in may...


"Trust God and buy broccoli."

Author Unknown



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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 14,703
3/21/18 1:06 P

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I heard Riley speak in January (online), and she reported something interesting. If a person does something new because of an outside influence, it hardly affects the areas in the brain associated with forming new habits. If she makes a conscious choice, it starts developing new networks. Eventually, the networks allow a person to do the behavior without a lot of thinking about it.

However, I think eating is more complicated because it's got so many ways and reasons to stimulate the desire. But if there is something that will make it all easier, it still has benefit to build neural networks before we get to it. And if we never do, at least we have some backing from the brain.

Six years of maintaining a 20% weightloss and counting.
*To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats.
8 years and counting! nosdiet.com/
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


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MEDDYPEDDY's Photo MEDDYPEDDY Posts: 8,369
3/21/18 4:38 A

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..and it was Gillian Riley "Eating less" it gave me many things to think about. I did not become a total fan, I canīt handle that sureness too well. But what has helped me is the idea that I have full responsibility and I can allow myself to eat or not to eat any given moment, somehow this "have to" creates an obsession in my head. The thought that "yes, I will or no, I wonīt" helps me to postphone the impulse and handling impulses is an important key to my recovery.


"Trust God and buy broccoli."

Author Unknown



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MEDDYPEDDY's Photo MEDDYPEDDY Posts: 8,369
3/21/18 4:30 A

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"It felt more like a calm, reasoned, but almost steely resolve than panic"

Iīm thinking that I feel like that sometimes today, but I also fall back into disease mood and maybe this is the way it is supposed to work... itīs so hard to let go of the idea of a "final solution" that will make all this go away. There is one book that helped me a lot recently, I donīt remember what it was, looking through my e-book library only irritates me becaus they have suddenly put in a function that i have to log in to read my own books on my own I-pad, so annoying!


"Trust God and buy broccoli."

Author Unknown



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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 14,703
3/13/18 3:43 P

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I like this phrase a lot: "is not part of a desperate attempt to control one's disordered style of eating."

It's hard to describe the difference in how I felt between the years of intermittent panic over my eating (and the appearance of my thighs, hips, stomach. etc.) and the final determination that I could not go on as I was. In the previous years, though I pretended it wasn't, it was more about feeling angry that my appetite wouldn't match the body I wanted and disappointed that I wasn't willing to control it for that end. I thought it meant down deep that I didn't deserve the good things I thought would come if only I were thin because I wasn't willing to work for them.

All that became meaningless when I saw how much stronger the habit had become over the years, and that then it was basically a chemical prison of repeating thoughts and actions that had never worked. In a certain way, I WAS desperate, but it was more for my mental health and not being willing to have this habit last and even escalate my whole adult life. It felt more like a calm, reasoned, but almost steely resolve than panic. I was willing for it to take more than a 30-or 90-day makeover, though I also had faith that it wouldn't be constant torture, either.

Ok, going on and on again. emoticon

Six years of maintaining a 20% weightloss and counting.
*To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats.
8 years and counting! nosdiet.com/
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


3,554 Days since:  I began the NO S lifestyle
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WHITE-GREEN's Photo WHITE-GREEN Posts: 3,933
3/11/18 1:38 A

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I agree with everything that Oolala53 said. I'm a binge eater and I followed therapy for it and the guidelines they gave me in therapy are worded by Oolala in a nutshell.

I know that roller coaster all too well - eating very clean and strict for a while only to end up bingeing on junk food. With me it got worse and worse over time before I sought help. The episodes of eating clean became shorter and the episodes of overeating and bingeing on junk became longer as my self-esteem dwindled.
The treatment made me realize that the one leads to the other!
Eating very clean AND bingeging are two sides of the same coin - at least if one has a tendency to binge. I can imagine that for some people eating very clean is just a good way to live and maybe a binge eater can do it if it's the outcome of a long healing process, and if the desire to do so comes from within and is not part of a desperate attempt to control one's disordered style of eating.




Edited by: WHITE-GREEN at: 3/11/2018 (01:42)
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JDMMJDMM's Photo JDMMJDMM Posts: 133
3/6/18 10:03 A

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I didn't think that at all. Right now I'm really focusing on not going to either extreme....no extreme deprivation, nor extreme overeating. It seems to be helping me to refocus.

Proverbs 30:8
"Give me neither poverty nor riches, but give me only my daily bread".....
........and a nice slice of cookie dough cheesecake. :)


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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 14,703
3/1/18 9:28 P

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I read back over it and hope it didn't sound like I was accusing you of anything that isn't true of all of us. It was all stuff that I cameto the conclusion to about myself.

I'm on your side!

Six years of maintaining a 20% weightloss and counting.
*To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats.
8 years and counting! nosdiet.com/
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


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JDMMJDMM's Photo JDMMJDMM Posts: 133
3/1/18 7:54 P

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I really understood and appreciate your thoughtful reply and will consider its contents more in depth!

Proverbs 30:8
"Give me neither poverty nor riches, but give me only my daily bread".....
........and a nice slice of cookie dough cheesecake. :)


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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 14,703
3/1/18 11:05 A

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Your experience is typical for bingers, and many dieters as well. Although there are some cases of strict plans leading to ending binging, the vast majority don't. In fact, they are often followed with exactly the cycles you talk about. (You think that you are willing only to do what will bring weight loss and that weight loss alone will make a strict eating life worth it. If that was true, no one would regain weight they lost, nor overeat and gain in the first place.)

It's also not typical for something to suddenly make it easy. Just because you want to stop doesn't mean you won't have the urges to binge that you will have to face down. It's easier to do if you are not also trying to limit calories a great deal. Consider allowing for maintenance for awhile until the body understands that it is going to get fed reasonably. Concentrate first on just not binging and trying to eat real meals that aren't either all "healthy" or a plate of all junk. That control can lead very well to the control needed to eat less later. Give yourself the gift of laying the foundation! It's like training for a marathon. Work up to it! You're in this for the long haul, right?


If your eating is disordered, it makes sense to bring order to it with regular meals. You will know there was a meal a few hours ago and another one coming. You will not be starving, even if you get urges to binge. They are not about a need for food! Your body was MADE to go without food for a few hours and use its reserves. You can learn how to let this natural process happen. Just know there might be lots of slips along the way, but no one slip prevents your success. Berating yourself terribly for mistakes is part of the binge cycle! It actually makes your inner eater think you have been adequately punished and thus deserve to go binge again later.

I know you want to hear something that makes it sound like it will all be over soon, but this can't be dealt with in a few minutes. But it can be dealt with. It is definitely not hopeless. Please come for support on the 21-day streak thread. You don't have to commit right away. It works perfectly well to ease into it, sometimes just being able to put off an urge for random food for 15 minutes. Just come and be around people who've lived it and are either beating it pretty darn well or are on their way.

Six years of maintaining a 20% weightloss and counting.
*To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats.
8 years and counting! nosdiet.com/
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


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JDMMJDMM's Photo JDMMJDMM Posts: 133
2/28/18 1:53 P

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bump :)

Proverbs 30:8
"Give me neither poverty nor riches, but give me only my daily bread".....
........and a nice slice of cookie dough cheesecake. :)


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JDMMJDMM's Photo JDMMJDMM Posts: 133
2/28/18 1:05 P

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I just posted the following on the main message boards. After considering it more, I'm realizing I'm a binger. I don't know why this hasn't occurred to me before now. I just thought I had no control...and that it's kinda normal for diet "failers" like myself to feel like they don't have control. Read my previously posted post below (that I put on the main msg board) and tell me what I need to do. I need help!

So, here's my cycle. (btw, I'm 38 yrs old and weight 177 lbs. at 5'5" tall) I have been fighting the weight battle most of my life since age 15. And I've been winning...up until my early 30's...I've been overweight now for a good six years - and my trajectory is not good right now. I'm my heaviest ever right now. I'm a sugar addict. Plain and simple. And I literally can't shake it. I will eat well for two days (low carb, high fat, paleo"ish") ....then on day 3 or 4, I cave again - sometimes BINGE (always want to binge but convince myself to not binge sometimes, if I'm LUCKY), sometimes just eat "maintenance level of calories of my choosing."

Then, I hate myself (and fixate and obsess really badly) and I'll be like "ok, I'll fast for 24 hrs then start over and do better." And I'll survive the fast approx. 30% of the time. The other 70% of the time I'll just not fast and either eat healthy....or NOT.

My eating patterns are so erratic. I've even had my husband put a padlock on certain cabinets in the kitchen...and take away my cash/credit card for a few days so I can't cheat.

If I could just get 10 good days in a row under my belt, I think I'd become ketotic and my appetite would get much lower...and I could stay the course. BUT I CAN'T DO IT...then I feel like such a complete FAILURE (which makes me want to eat dairy queen even more!!!)

How do I break this cycle without going to an expensive fat camp????? I NEED HELP!!!

I'm so discouraged...and I hate feeling this way. And I hate being so hungry. I'm always hungry.....

Edited by: JDMMJDMM at: 2/28/2018 (13:54)
Proverbs 30:8
"Give me neither poverty nor riches, but give me only my daily bread".....
........and a nice slice of cookie dough cheesecake. :)


 current weight: 178.0 
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