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KATBYRNE's Photo KATBYRNE Posts: 61
6/20/11 2:05 P

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From my experience with the COGNITIVE changes involved in both exercise & nutrition, I can tell you that the exercise portion of the equation is necessary for the nutrition side to work in controlling obesity.

Without the physiological & psychological benefits provided by increasing exercise, it would be VERY challenging to make major changes in your diet and nutrition habits.

I would never have been able to eliminate my food-addiction patterns if I hadn't started to get fit. I think it might be possible to overcome addiction patterns with other types of positive accomplishment (a success breeds success approach) but exercise/fitness has such a direct connection to nutritional health, that it is the more self-reinforcing behavior when combined with diet changes.

I believe the reason that almost any person who has gone from obese to fit credits BOTH diet and exercise is that they are BOTH necessary to eliminate obesity. If you are seriously changing your fitness habits, you DO make nutritional changes too, and vice versa.

This reminds me of the nature/nurture argument. There is no one-sided answer.

(Great Topic! Lots of "food for thought")


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GRACEFULIFE's Photo GRACEFULIFE Posts: 1,705
6/4/11 2:19 P

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Epic love for these people... "I don't think there IS a debate whether or not the laws of thermodynamics exist!"

Take THAT, fatosphere!

One thing I note is that these gents don't really discuss what type of exercise is being done. They focus much on exercise as calorie burning. As you know I'm not much on the hamster wheel theory of weight control anymore.

The fork guy has great points near the end of his presentation. No under-eating and over-exercising, rather thoughtful dietary reduction bolstered by tempered physical activity. Exercise can help inspire better eating behaviors (in fact, in many other areas of life I'd argue). This is the sort of moderate message that people need to see.

...and the summaries get good too. "Get rid of the scale as the only indicator of success." Amen.

Unfortunately things naturally go downhill during the Q&A... "It's all about the calories" - right on. "It's really about the energy expenditure" ... well, not so much. As for the questions, I'm known to say there are no stupid questions. Well, to whomever I've said it in the past, I retract my point.

GRACEFULIFE's Photo GRACEFULIFE Posts: 1,705
6/4/11 12:42 A

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Watching now, finally....

Though before I do, in response to some of the discussion:
A more practical approach would be, which is more important for YOU in the stage YOU are in? Because if you want to change your lifestyle, it doesn't start by thinking about it and then starting next week (because next week...it will start next week). It starts by changing NOW. You can't dally in breaking your habits. I see so many excuses... whining about how hard it is to lose weight. Guess what, the actual mechanics of it are not difficult - it is your mindset that is hard. ANY behavioral change is difficult, and it doesn't really matter if you are talking about a habit of worrying over things or a habit of eating more calories than you need.

For most here, diet is more important at first in their journey for a number of reasons. That typically changes to more or less equal importance eventually, as it should. Some may wind up with exercise being by far the most important while for some exercise may have to reduce in importance whether it's due to aging or lifestyle choice.

So overall (in the aggregate, as it were) I'd say diet is most important, because not only does it provably have more "leverage" (did anyone watch the diet vs. exercise videos that I blogged?) but because it is important at any time in the journey of being healthy. But that doesn't mean that diet is always more important to every individual in every situation. Blanket statements are readily misunderstood to always apply which is simply not logical, reasoned judgment. The human brain's tendency, even desire, to create and use generalizations never ceases to amaze.

@platson: "until science comes up with ways of dealing with the detrimental effects of aging ... no amount of exercise will keep our bodies from aging...slow it, maybe, but not stop it."

I don't disagree, clearly you cannot STOP aging (much less dying). But I think there are many things assumed (at least by the general public) to be inevitable effects of aging that can be delayed until the endgame. However I think part of the answer here is that if you ask the general public what the effects of aging are they will answer with very macroscopic items compared to those you mentioned.

Modern medicine has lots of great attributes, but some attributes that are not good are its failure at being holistic, individualized, or proactive (by which I mean both anticipation of problems and treating causes more than symptoms). I know it's improving at the last two, very slowly - but I don't think it necessarily makes a lot of effort at the first.

Edited by: GRACEFULIFE at: 6/4/2011 (00:53)
KAYOTIC's Photo KAYOTIC Posts: 16,578
5/21/11 2:34 P

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I enjoyed the series, thanks, 4A. I found the "feet" argument more entertaining, and I was leaning toward that after his first talk, but in the end I do think that "fork" probably has a little more to do with obesity, but that both are important to good health, so I suppose the answer to the debate is what is your ultimate goal? If it's just to lose weight, it's easier to hit that through changes in diet. If it's better health, you really need both.

The point that I appreciated most was that you have to find a balance of diet and exercise that you enjoy and can sustain long term in order to really maintain that health you have achieved.

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MRPLATSON's Photo MRPLATSON Posts: 336
5/19/11 5:23 P

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It's my belief, at any rate, that until science comes up with ways of dealing with the detrimental effects of aging (such as decreased levels of hormones, decreased nutrient absorption, decreased cell division and programmed cellular death) that no amount of exercise will keep our bodies from aging...slow it, maybe, but not stop it.

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GRACEFULIFE's Photo GRACEFULIFE Posts: 1,705
5/19/11 4:28 P

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Actually, there is debate in the community whether slowing metabolism is actually a necessary happenstance in aging or if it's mostly because of increased inactivity and concomitant lowered muscle mass. The person I was reading doing this musing actually came down on the side of it being a side effect rather than something that always happens.

I think, also, that weakening bones are majorly caused by a lack of doing things that cause them to stay in good condition.

Aching joints and a changing hormonal environment, well, I'll give you those ones. And the need to eat adequately and properly goes without saying. Although whether or not we need to learn to do so is only true for those who care about how long they live and/or consider fitness to add to quality of life. I personally don't really care about the former but I do believe in the latter.

MRPLATSON's Photo MRPLATSON Posts: 336
5/19/11 10:16 A

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I'm with Debra, you can't out exercise a bad diet.
I can't even count the number of professional athletes who blow up like balloons when their time in the sport is over because through their lives they never learned to properly balance nutrition with the level of their activity. The countless athletes who put on extra weight in the off season - for most of them the only reason they are in shape is because the profession demands activity, left to their own devices they would not know what to do to maintain their health.
Even all of us here will eventually have to deal with old age, slowing metabolism, aching joints, weakening bones and decreasing hormones, at some point we all need to learn to eat adequately and properly.

Conversely, it's very possible for a person to be thin and unhealthy or functionally fat. Still, having large doses of fat on a body has negative side effects outside of cardio-vascular health, like joint load and it doesn't solve the overarching problem we're facing today which is that nourishment is abundant and high levels of activity are no longer necessary for our imminent survival.

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MRPLATSON's Photo MRPLATSON Posts: 336
5/19/11 9:53 A

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and forking can ruin your life

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BREWMASTERBILL's Photo BREWMASTERBILL SparkPoints: (0)
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5/18/11 5:42 P

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I'm saying that spooning can lead to forking.

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4A-HEALTHY-BMI's Photo 4A-HEALTHY-BMI Posts: 6,110
5/18/11 4:02 P

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Debra:

Are you saying that you think it's preferable to eat less RATHER than exercise?

I think both of the debaters would argue that such a route is not healthy...
emoticon

Which one do you think made a more cogent argument?

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BUZYBEEDEBRA's Photo BUZYBEEDEBRA Posts: 2,492
5/18/11 3:51 P

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I honestly believe you cannot out-exercise a bad diet !

Debra Sue (Houston, TX)

www.tntdeb.webs.com/


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4A-HEALTHY-BMI's Photo 4A-HEALTHY-BMI Posts: 6,110
5/18/11 3:25 P

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The pro-exercise guy maintains that if obesity is defined solely by weight, then nutrition is going to win every time. But suppose you could define overall health improvement - then he claims that exercise is going to win.

The pro-nutrition guy rightly claims (in my mind) that it's simply easier to eat less than move more, all calories being equal. His issue is with the misleading message that we can exercise off weight.

Both in the end agree that weight isn't necessarily the best index of health; it's just a convenient one.

It's an interesting debate and brings up a lot of good points. I recommend watching it.

Edited by: 4A-HEALTHY-BMI at: 5/18/2011 (15:27)
Never, ever, EVER give up!

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MRPLATSON's Photo MRPLATSON Posts: 336
5/18/11 3:00 P

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*drum roll* and the answer is - BOTH

but if I had to pick one I'd say nutrition.

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4A-HEALTHY-BMI's Photo 4A-HEALTHY-BMI Posts: 6,110
5/18/11 2:53 P

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A recent debate held in Canada about whether exercise or nutrition is more critical to managing obesity.

original
blogs.plos.org/obesitypanacea/2011/0
5/
11/forks-vs-feet-watch-the-debate-liR>ve-here-starting-at-1155-est-on-may-12/


hi-res version
peerreviewradio.com/2011/05/forksvsf
ee
t/


Some interesting links:

Canadian Obesity Network
www.obesitynetwork.ca

Database of vetted obesity literature
plus.mcmaster.ca/obesity/Default.asp
x?
Page=1


Edited by: 4A-HEALTHY-BMI at: 5/18/2011 (15:56)
Never, ever, EVER give up!

From BMI 53 (336 lbs) to under 30. Now aiming for less than 20% body fat.

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